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An Islamabad district and sessions court adjourned a defamation case filed by designer Maria B against podcaster Shehzad Ghias until July 14, days after she said she served Ghias a legal notice, accusing him of defamation and inciting violence against her.

During a second hearing of the case on Monday, Ghias’s lawyer Imaan Mazari appeared and said she would submit power of attorney at the next hearing.

The court ordered that arguments should be submitted at the next hearing, and the request for a restraining order should be discussed.

Earlier in the day, Additional Sessions Judge Sheikh Muhammad Sohail heard the case, during which Maria B’s lawyer Barrister Abdul Ahad Khokher appeared on her behalf while no one appeared on behalf of Ghias.

Khokher argued that Ghias should stop tweeting and posting videos, adding he was doing so despite a case in court. The barrister said the case was underway and negative propaganda was being spread.

Khokher asked the court to prohibit Ghias from sharing tweets and videos.

The court adjourned the hearing until Ghias or his lawyer appeared.

Civil suit filed by Maria B

The civil suit, a copy of which is available with Images, claimed that Ghias made “several false, frivolous and baseless allegations against” Maria B.

It continued, “The defendant has made several allegations, including but not limited to that the plaintiff has used Islam, with a negative connotation, to promote her brand; the defendant has mocked the plaintiff’s affinity to Islam by saying that she has rebranded herself as an Islamic thought leader to sell her hideous clothes, which demeans the Plaintiff’s love of faith, and the defendant further said that the Plaintiff has been the cause of [the] deaths of many people especially trans.

“That she has promoted her brand on the back of a genocide, ie Palestine genocide. That she has a foreign passport and prostrates in front of foreign rulers just for the sake of citizenship. The defendant has also alleged that the plaintiff has made money out of the blood of trans people. The defendant incited people/mob to attack the store of the plaintiff so that the plaintiff would get a lesson.”

It claimed that Ghias said “that during the initial days of Covid, she had sent her house help in bus just to save herself and put the life of many other people in danger and caused the spreading of virus.”

The suit stated: “It is reiterated that all of the statements made by the defendant in the videos against the plaintiff are highly despicable, are based on lies and concocted just to damage her reputation and the statements have lowered the plaintiff in the estimation of others. The plaintiff is a law-abiding citizen and has never been directly or indirectly involved in harming anyone.”

It claimed that Maria B always tried to “create harmony among different sections of the society through her philanthropic works”, “always tried to help people in need”, her campaign for Palestine received widespread recognition and she donated the entire proceeds of the Palestine collection to Palestine.

The suit continued that Maria B campaigned for intersex rights and against LGBTQ culture and that she made the public aware of the difference between transgender and intersex.

“The allegation of having foreign passports and bowing before foreign rulers is obnoxious without any basis and has put the patriotism of the plaintiff into question.

“The story of household help was debunked at the time but the defendant is still using the alleged occurrence to malign and defame the plaintiff. The house help of the plaintiff did not have Covid and whole of the story is frivolous.”

It continued that Ghias’s statements “have lowered the esteem of the plaintiff in the eyes of the general public as well as friends, relatives, acquaintances and [the] public at large,” adding that the podcaster’s words exposed Maria B to “undue hate, dislike, contempt, undue criticism.”

“The statements have also caused mental agony and stress to the plaintiff as well as financial loss. The defendant has also hurt the religious sentiments of the plaintiff. That by making the abovementioned statements the defendant has caused injury/harm to the personal interests of the Plaintiff.”

The suit maintained that Ghias’s statements make him the “originator” according to Section 2(dd) of the Defamation Ordinance 2002, which states that the “‘originator’ means the initiator of the defamatory statement or any other defamatory act”, and that it fulfilled the definition of publication under Section 2(e), which states, “‘publication’ means the communication of the words to at least one person other than the person defamed and includes a newspaper or broadcast through the internet or other media.”

“The statements made by the defendant fulfil all the ingredients of defamation as mentioned in the Defamation Ordinance 2002 and enunciated by the courts of law in Pakistan,” the suit stated.

It requested that Ghias pay general and special damages of Rs500 million to Maria B, along with the cost of the suit, tender an apology “with the same prominence through which the defamatory statements were made”, delete the videos and not repeat “such defamatory statements in any manner whatsoever.”

Maria B’s statement

In a video posted to Maria B’s Instagram account on Thursday, she shared her clips from Ghias’ podcast The Pakistan Experience in which he interviewed transgender rights activist Shehzadi Rai and called her a “D-grade designer” and said she used the blood and “murders” of transpeople to sell her clothes, with Rai chiming in that she also used the plight of Palestine for sales.

Maria B’s video also featured a clip in which Ghias said a mob should go to her fashion show, break things and say western wear is haram and that they would burn all of her clothes.

“Shehzad beita, you’re not a child. When you deceive people and tell people to attack me, because I’m taking you to court for defamation and inciting violence, you’re already worried. I will continue talking to the mothers and fathers of Pakistan about Islam and the nation of Lut. I will never be quiet,” she said in her video message.

Maria B said Ghias was served a notice from a civil court, but that she would also take him to criminal court.

Ghias ‘completely’ rejected allegations

In a series of tweets, Ghias revealed that Maria B was suing him for Rs500 million and said he would see her in court.

“The other side is running a propaganda campaign to defend Maria B. What they have posted is a complete lie. I have finally seen the case details, I am not being sued for incitement to violence, I am being sued for reputational damage. They are lying and posting edited clips,” he wrote.

Ghias “completely” rejected the allegation of incitement to violence, and said that the complete podcast showed that his statement was “an example of what Maria B does to others, how she targets trans people and then I say how will she feel if the same is done to her and I use it as an example but she cut all that context.”

He also shared a longer clip from the podcast, where in after his comments about a mob attacking Maria B’s fashion show, he said, “When you send mobs to others, you should look in the mirror.”

He maintained that the clip being posted on Twitter was without context and was from a podcast about campaigns against trans people and mobs sent against them. He reiterated that “the part the other side has edited out is where I give an example of what Maria B does and ask her to imagine a what-if scenario — what if the other side did this.”

Ghias said he was not inciting a mob and was “glad to know Maria B thinks this amounts to incitement to violence because that means all her vlogs targeting people like this will then also amount to incitement to violence, allowing all the trans individuals targeted by he to sue her using her own logic.”

He hoped the “same legal recourses are available to the trans community as well.”

The podcast host also alleged that a mob was sent to his house to “kill” him. He wrote, “Sending a mob to someone’s home to kill them because you politically disagree with someone. Well done Twitter, stay classy.”

In a note to those who leaked his information, Ghias said the authorities had been informed, legal counsel was engaged, and the matter was being handled responsibly.

“Safe for now. Taking legal recourses. Law enforcement has been informed,” he wrote.

In an earlier video shared to his YouTube channel on Wednesday, Ghias said Maria B initially sent him a legal notice for defamation worth several crores.

“It’s her right, if she believes I said something wrong, courts exist in our country, she can file a defamation lawsuit, and prove it. I don’t think I have done any defamation.”

He claimed that instead of civil defamation, she sent him a criminal defamation notice and that he received a notice from the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA). Ghias said he received no explanation from the FIA when he asked what he had done wrong.

“I have received a summons from court that I have to appear before in Islamabad. I still don’t know any details, what I’ve said, what she has a problem with or what I’ve done wrong that the court has called me. I have no details of the case.

“My assumption is that FIA launched an FIR and gave it to the court, and the court has summoned me. There is a high chance that I’m called on Monday and detained or arrested.”

The Pakistan Experience host said that given the political climate of the world, this was not the time for him to back down and that he would continue to stand with and fight for what he believed was right.

“I will appear before the court, as I’ve been asked. I will go to court, after which I will be arrested and detained. I will not resist or flee the country.” In the event he is arrested, Ghias also asked his followers to put social media pressure for his release to increase its likelihood.

“As far as defamation is concerned, I have not lied about Maria B, I have not tried to defame her. If I wanted to launch a campaign against her, there were thousands of ways — the things she says in Pakistan, her exports to America, we could have sued her there because she spoke against American laws […] She didn’t pay a Turkish influencer, I didn’t think it that important [to make a video].”

Talking about the Turkish influencer’s case, Ghias claimed that Maria accepted that she was at fault but filed a Rs100 million lawsuit against the influencer.

“The elites in our country think they can do anything and use any institution, can suppress anyone’s voice, can use the FIA, put people in jail, detain people. I don’t have any money or influence, or backing to use and end this case. I will use all the legal recourses available to me.”

Ghias reiterated that he always stood by the truth, what he believed was correct and principled, and that he never defamed someone or made a video with that intention.

“I have always focused on social issues and have not uttered Maria B’s name since the Shehzadi Rai podcast because I have much bigger issues to focus on. Now, if Maria B wants to silence me and my voice using her influence. God knows if Maria B is doing this herself or if others are making her do this because in the past one year, I’ve received threats from everywhere.”

He maintained that it was inevitable for him to have a “trip to the northern areas”, given the nature of his podcast. “If this is the price I have to pay for the work I have done, if this is what I need to suffer for the work to live, I genuinely believe what I have done is right, it is my freedom of speech, and I will fight.”